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NPR’s Scott Detrow speaks to Danielle Fishel, co-author of Book Meets World: The Definitive Inside Story of the Hit Sitcom Boy Meets World about her reflections on growing up on-screen.
Picture this. It’s the mid-’90s. It’s Friday night. My family and I are parked in front of our orangish-red couch in the den, ready to spend the next few hours watching TGIF on ABC.
UNIDENTIFIED SINGER: (Singing) Going to have some fun, show you how it’s done. TGIF.
DETROW: For millennials, this was the block of shows we waited for each week – sitcoms like “Full House,” “Family Matters” and “Boy Meets World.”
DANIELLE FISHEL: What are the things I’ve learned in my teenagehood that now I’m carrying with me into being a young adult? And I think “Boy Meets World” did that better than almost any other show.
DETROW: That is Danielle Fishel, known to fans as Topanga Lawrence on “Boy Meets World.” And true statement, I was one of millions of boys with a crush on Topanga.
I’m just going to say up front that, like, my 12-year-old self would be really impressed that I’m able to get sentences out talking to you. So really…
FISHEL: Aww.
DETROW: …Made it (laughter).
FISHEL: Thank you. I appreciate that. That never gets old.
DETROW: She and her two former co-stars, Rider Strong and Will Friedle, host “Pod Meets World,” and now the three are out with their latest project, “Book Meets World.” In the podcast and now the book, Fishel has looked back on a show that shaped her life and left a major mark on pop culture. There’s chapter on a few wild twists. For one, it was kind of a fluke that Topanga became the love interest of the main character, Cory Matthews, who was played by Ben Savage. Also, Fishel wasn’t even cast as Topanga at the start, but she won the role last-minute when another actor didn’t work out.
FISHEL: I just went into normal work that day. I had couple of lines, and the next thing I knew I was Topanga. And I thought, wow, now I have a much bigger part this week. But…
DETROW: And you had to kiss somebody on screen.
FISHEL: I sure did.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “BOY MEETS WORLD”)
FISHEL: (As Topanga Lawrence) That your first kiss happened when you thought you looked weird. Because then you’d know it’s not what you look like on the outside that matters. It’s what kind of person you are.
I had to kiss somebody on screen and also in my real life, which I had never done.
DETROW: Yeah.
FISHEL: So…
DETROW: Well, the audience did give you that big ’90s sitcom woo, so…
FISHEL: They did.
DETROW: …Probably felt (inaudible).
FISHEL: Yeah, we got lots of woos.
DETROW: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “BOY MEETS WORLD”)
UNIDENTIFIED STUDIO AUDIENCE: Woo.
FISHEL: So much kissing and so many woos.
DETROW: Yeah.
FISHEL: And I think this is definitely a different time ’cause I – we don’t get the woos now.
DETROW: I think one of the things the podcast and the book does really well is just kind of bluntly talk about the reality where you’re all kids, you know, but it’s also a professional workplace in the cutthroat world of entertainment, and you write and talk about having your friends cut. They’re – you never see them on set again. And…
FISHEL: Yeah.
DETROW: …Sometimes blunt, uncomfortable conversations with adults about how you’re reading your lines and about how you look. Like, how do you think about that as an adult?
FISHEL: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because coming-of-age stories are so necessary for all kids, you know? It’s like, I remember seeing things on TV and going, oh. Oh, good. I feel that way, too. Like, it’s not just me. And so on the one hand, it’s so important for there to be kids that bring these moments to life. And on the other hand, that means kids are working in very adult environments. So it’s tough because I see both sides of it. I see the argument for it being an inappropriate place for kids, and it can be for sure. And I think a lot of that’s in the delivery, you know? I work with kids, directing them all the time, and I don’t think any of them would ever say, oh, yeah, she really made me uncomfortable in that moment. Like, we just have normal conversation.
DETROW: One more question on this theme that you touch on several times in the book is the way that the directors and other executives on the show talked about how you looked and how that really hurt your self-esteem, really hurt your relationship with food. It was painful to read about.
FISHEL: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s another aspect of the entertainment industry that I kind of don’t love.
DETROW: Yeah.
FISHEL: Especially in the ’90s. You know, the waif, very, very thin look, which is also the look du jour, you know? We’re back to a place of everyone being very skinny. And if you didn’t fit into that, there was a real sense of, like, oh, no, this is going to be bad for your career. And I remember going in for auditions after “Boy Meets World” ended. It was one of the things that made me say, I don’t want to do this anymore. Just walking into an audition, standing in front of the camera, saying your name, your age, and then they would want you to say your height and your weight. And a couple of times, they would just say, now if you’ll just really slowly turn around, I’m going to pan the camera up and down your body.
DETROW: Ugh.
FISHEL: That really stuck with me for a long time. And I can’t blame my, you know, poor relationship with food entirely on things I experienced on “Boy Meets World.” It started when I was really young. Being a teenage girl, you are acutely aware of how others perceive your body, way earlier than you ever should be.
DETROW: Let’s talk about some of the plot because, you know, I mentioned at the top, being a kid watching this, a few years younger than everybody in the cast. And, like, the Cory and Topanga love story, I’m like, they’re so old and wise. And rewatching some of these episodes in my 40s and reading the way that you’re kind of really clear about, like, I don’t know about some of these plot choices. Like…
FISHEL: Yeah, yeah.
DETROW: How do you process the meant-to-be-together, absolutely nobody else, but 16- and 17-year-old and 18-year-old Cory and Topanga?
FISHEL: You know, I think I’ve had an easier time processing it because the amount of people I have met who say, we are Cory and Topanga. We met in junior high. We fell in love, and we’ve been married for 20 years, and we have four kids. And I hear those stories all the time. And I think representation matters. Although I don’t think it’s necessarily the most responsible storyline to show two 18-year-olds getting married, I also think there are worse things than saying, I love this person. I want to be committed to them. I’m going to take this leap.
DETROW: I did want to ask, because I think it’s one of the questions a lot of people have when they see the book, when they see the podcast. There’s three of you involved. Ben Savage, not involved. How would you describe your adult relationship with Ben Savage? And how would you explain why he’s not part of the podcast, not part of the book?
FISHEL: We asked Ben to be a part of the podcast, and it just wasn’t for him. And we respect that.
DETROW: I think you talk and write very honestly about your experience on “Boy Meets World.” A lot of high highs, a lot of low lows. All three of you do. Has this process – the podcast, the book – kind of helped you sort with the lows a little more? Like, kind of thinking about them and talking them through as adults, has that been a positive thing?
FISHEL: Absolutely. One of the episodes I was dreading doing on the podcast was the episode that we talked about mine and Will Friedle’s weight. And I was thinking when we first started the podcast, like, oh, gosh, I hope I feel strong by the time we get there ’cause this is going to be a really painful episode to go through. And I was so pleasantly surprised.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “BOY MEETS WORLD”)
FISHEL: (As Topanga Lawrence) You’re not that overweight, Eric.
WILL FRIEDLE: (As Eric Matthews) Oh, come on. I see the way the girls flock to Jack and his 6% body fat and ignore me and my 70% flab.
FRIEDLE: (As Eric Matthews) What am I going to do? I mean, I feel so alone.
UNIDENTIFIED STUDIO AUDIENCE: Aww.
FISHEL: (As Topanga Lawrence) You’re not alone.
My storyline was actually significantly more positive, and I hadn’t remembered that. So yes, I think being able to look back, and this is – although most people don’t have their entire teenagehood on film…
DETROW: And are probably happy about that.
FISHEL: Yeah, and you should be. But everyone can relate to the idea of being able to look back at moments in your life where you have carried a story with you. And it’s never too late to look back and to see it through a different lens. And I feel like that’s something everyone could benefit from and just reshaping the stories we tell ourselves about our past.
DETROW: That is Danielle Fishel, co-star of “Boy Meets World” and co-author of “Book Meets World,” which is out now. Thank you so much. Feels like a flashback to Friday night, sitting on the couch with my family, talking to you. It’s really nice to talk.
FISHEL: Thank you so much, Scott. Nice talking to you.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY COLCORD’S “BOY MEETS WORLD INTRO”)
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